Your whole thread says that, you're even petitioning for them in a forum. So if you aren't willing to wait for them, then you don't care that much about price despite your statements to the contrary. Not grasping as hard as you are. You use non-comparable discounts and vehicles in your comparison but the actual demand for the specific widget "a Jeep Wrangler Truck" is somehow not germaine to the concept of supply/demand and equillibrium pricing? Sounds like your using piles of straws to justify wanting FCA to lower your cost of entry for no reason rather than acknowledging the specific things that make a JT desirable and capable of demanding a premium over a rusty 1988 Dodge Dakota / Ford Ranger, let alone a 'not Jeep Wrangler Truck' vehicle like a Raptor. It's all relative, I wouldn't pay that for any truck, but I would for a JLU Rubicon+ without batting an eye. Because that is what the market dictates I have to pay. Plus the resale on a Wrangler is high, and the JT likely similar (at least initially), so it's value versus $50K on a vehicle whose price craters year after year is worth it. No it hasn't, because there is nothing like this in the mainstream market, only in the actual Jeep-Truck conversion market, which has shown what people will pay for that. Again, a Daihatsu / Used Ranger is no more a JT than a Kia Sportage is a Wrangler. Which is why you don't just go buy all of those mid-size trucks if you actually thought that they are exactly the same as a JT.... Hence the pointlessness of the thread, if they were like all those other trucks you want to compare it to, and it is just the price that were different, then you'd buy all those other vehicles and not complain about a truck that is so obviously different than just another cookie-cutter mid-sized truck.
My point of this thread is that Midsize trucks are Overpriced. And you pay a premium for them when compared to their full-size counterparts. Thats what I was getting at. The JT being one of those. This was never FCA specific. And you are grasping at straws when your comparing a NON PRODUCTION product to anything production. The simple fact of rarity helps justify pricing on conversions and once the JT goes in to production that rarity is GONE. It now becomes another cool truck just like every other mid-size one on the market, with its own unique feature set. Just like the ZR2 with its awesome shocks, TDR Pro with Fox Shock Set Up & reliability and how the Ranger Raptor will most likely have some awesome long travel IFS set up off the dealer floor. Yep the Jeep resale value and total cost of ownership are two reasons I'm still looking at the JT. However the other trucks (2500 diesel and Raptor) also have great resale and low costs of ownership. People buy all kinds of LIMITED shit for crazy prices, dosen't mean that there is a high demand for them. Again comparing a Jeep-Conversion is false-cause fallacy. There are two current mid-size trucks that are totally compare able to the JT: the ZR2, as well as TRD PRO (if your comparing it to the Rubicon model). Yes its not convertible, but not everyone wants a convertible, in fact some people might look at that as a negative. Also some people might want IFS over solid axes for better road manners & comfort, or long travel suspension as they spend more time in the desert vs rock crawling. Nope. There is a solid chance I still might buy one of those, but I'm not making my decision till I see what the JT fully presents. All the options have trade offs for me. The JT being small towing capacity, worst hwy manners due to solid axels, the 2500 due to its huge size and a new model coming out in 2020/21, the Raptor is mostly price as not sure I want to commit to an additional $15K right out the door.
So you are comparing what you guess will be the MSRP of a mid-size truck that won't even be sold until late 2018 to the "off the lot" price of a full size truck that is currently sitting on a lot? You need to show me the "off the lot" price of the JT, and the "off the lot" price of a 2019 "whatever you think is a better deal". Until then you are just talking about what you think will happen. Yes, $50k is a lot of money, but I am not going to spend that much. I am going to spend an amount that I have no problem spending on a vehicle that I will keep for at least 10 years. My current Jeeps are a 1943 GPW, 1988 YJ, and a 1999 XJ. If I wanted to buy a pickup that I was going to use as an appliance I would get a Tacoma, or a F-150... or better yet, some really cheap econobox and just use a trailer with my XJ for the rare occasions when I do need to haul something that should go in the back of a pickup. But you compared the guess of the MSRP of the JT to the price of full size trucks, where are the "off the lot" prices of 4WD Colorados, Tacomas, and Rangers? Buy the 2500 Cummins, its a good truck and you can get it now, I don't think you are a Jeeper, just a someone that happens to own a Jeep.
No. I'm comparing the current MSRP of the JKU Rubicon, which there is no way the JT Rubicon will be less then. If so I would be VERY happy, but the chances of that happening are very very very slim. Congratulations. For the model I would would want (Rubicon, since I currently have a loaded Rubicon) that is what I would most likely pay, and at the higher end of the spectrum there are a LOT of great alternatives in that price point. That was my whole point of this thread was that Mid-Size trucks are quite over priced for what they are, and that price goes up fast. Fact: JT's will not be discounted or barely discounted on release, Fact: Pricing will be inline with the JKU/JLU .... rumors are its going to be even more. Fact: You can get a full size Off-Road or Diesel truck from FCA for similar Money that offers more HP, More TQ, Better Towing, and More Payload. MSRP Prices are going to be similar to Tacomas: Nice Ad Hominem. Who the F**K are you to say I'm not a Jeeper. You don't even own a Wrangler maybe your not a Jeeper (see how that works).
My 1988 YJ is a Wrangler, the first Jeep to use the name Wrangler, so I do own a Wrangler. I also own the original Jeep, before they were called Wrangler, or even CJs, a 1943 GPW. I also own a 1999 Cherokee (XJ). I have over the years owned 4 other XJs. I am also considering replacing the Suburban with a Grand Wagoneer, because Jeep. Sorry if I touched nerve by call you out, I don't mean it as an insult, but there are a lot of people that own Jeeps, but are not really Jeepers. God Bless every single one of them because they keep the FCA and the aftermarket companies alive and make it possible for me to keep my Jeep addiction going. You seem to be looking for a pickup and are seriously checking out the JT. I appreciate that, but if I was in the market for a pickup truck, to do pickup truck things and occasionally off-road, I would look at Tacoma or Colorado. What I want is a Jeep that I can take off-road and occasionally do pickup truck things, so that is why I am eagerly awaiting the Scrambler.
I'm still with Vegas; the mid-size truck market is vastly overpriced compared to its full-size counterparts (both in MSRP and discounts and wiggle room). And if this overpricing continues, then the market will die (again) and we're all stuck with full sized pickups... My concern is that Jeep is the only FCA unit that makes money (it contributes 95% of the aggregate profit margin for the entire FCA model lineup) and Jeep will be able to sell any/every JTU it builds -- some beforehand via custom orders. All this means Jeep will remain the Alpha Dog of the FCA pack and be required to "carry" all others
When towing a 3500 lb boat we get 20 to 30% better fuel economy in my buddy's Ram with the ECO vrs my Tahoe. I'd like to see how much better the GM twins do with their diesel vrs the v6. I bet the diesel gets 30 to 40% better fuel economy. For those that tow on a regular basis, cost may not even be most important factor in vrs the overall improved towing experience with the diesel. I mean the current Wrangler literally screams murder towing a couple thousand lb trailer over 65 mph.
Drop the diesel? Automatic transmission runs about $1200. So you save ~$4800 by going with the gas V6 (assuming your prices are reasonably accurate). If you are financing, the additional interest for the diesel may offset any savings due to diesel MPG. Remember, pay back on the diesel engine will be several years, and if you are financing, it will be even longer. Also, do you want your Jeep to belch out black soot? And do you want it to clack clack clack like a rattle can? OK, you get my opinion on diesels. However, If you are a hard core rock crawler and need more torque, then go for the diesel, otherwise, I think the gas engine is the way to go. Do you really need leather? I have never ordered leather and have been very happy with the standard fabric. I don't get the leather fetish. Premium sound, yes. Body colored fenders are personal preference. Auto temp control, will never buy a vehicle without it. Remote start is very likely on my next Wrangler.
You're right, kinda BS to post that without some sort of reference. Link below is not for the faint of heart. Hoping Jeep will have it figured out by the Scrambler roll-out. Would much prefer a small Cummings...but that is not in the cards. Consensus was the Cummings was not fuel efficient enough. http://www.ram1500diesel.com/forum/...nical/8564-eco-diesel-engine-failures-91.html http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2016/3/...ers-Need-To-Beware-Of-Engine-Failure-7732734/
That is some unnerving information. In all fairness we should be getting the "gen 2" of the ecodiesel. Hopefully these issues have been worked out. It appears the new engines are showing different part numbers at least hinting at changes and repairs. Thank you for giving some follow up information, I appreciate that.
Been looking at the Ram with Eco but held off to see what changes will be made in Dec when the 19 rolls out. Very few got rolled out in 17 due to EPA issues, now that is resolved those trucks are trickling back into the market. Seems like the folks who use the trucks on a daily basis do best with the regen, mileage, and problems. Those that use the trucks infrequently and idle a lot, seem to be more inclined to have issues. IDK, I want one, if the Eco's rolling out in the 17/18 Rams don't have a lot of problems that will be my engine of choice.
I said that as a simply a sarcastic way of showing that who are you or even who am I to determine what a "Jeeper" is. The the guy that mall crawls his Jeep or uses it to drop the top by the beach is as much as Jeeper as the the bare bones guy who only rock crawls with his. If you want to go back to the original intent then the only "true" Jeepers would be military guys. I have been a automotive enthusiast since I was a little kid, but I never had blind loyalty to a brand. Although it just so happens my fist car was a 88 XJ. I have looked at both and and both are too boring for me. The Colorado is ugly IMO and the interior is terrible. The Tacoma is under powered (not doing that again). If the JT wasn't offering the diesel then I would be buying either the 2500 or a Raptor, but since it is and I love my JKU (even with all the complaints I have about it) I figured I would wait it out and see what is actually produced.
Don't want to speak for anyone else, but I think Vegas likes diesels and needs the extra torque for towing, off-road, etc. I know I do. As for the black soot, that doesn't happen since 2007 unless someone has tampered with the emission/exhaust. Leather in a daily driver car, yes. In a Jeep... probably not. But I must admit my current XJ has leather seats and the only problem I have is that when I ripped the drives seat I was kind of bummed instead of the usual "oh well, it just adds character". I'll get the leather if it comes in a package with other features I want, but cloth would be fine. Since I will be driving the JT on the street a lot, I might get the premium sound. I have noticed in my other Jeeps I just turn the music off on the trail to listen to the ham radio and forget to turn it back on when we stop for eat or to camp. I'll eventually go with aftermarket flares so I wouldn't get body colored flares unless it was a very popular color so I could sell them to someone that didn't buy them or introduced theirs to some rocks or trees.
While it is fair to cross-shop a midsize truck with a fullsize, there will be a large chunk of the buying market that will not. When it comes to payload vs price the 2nd hand pick-up market will always win in that battle. When you have a guy that just wants to haul his dirtbike or quad to the trailhead but still be able to park in their tight office parking lot then you get into an exclusive market. The midsize truck is aimed at the same market of people that used to buy the big full size SUVs. Honestly if you need a work truck a full size will win regardless of price points. I think everyone at this point believes that we'll see a $50k or even a $60k JT this generation. Honesly the amount of options we've seen leaked are getting absurd, but Jeep has always had a base model that was at least attainable for most. So if you're not looking for ultra luxury, expect a base $45k JT to be there. Not everyone needs a 10" touchscreen display, plush leather interior, wide axles and 33" tires from the factory. Some people will want the truck due to its diminutive dimensions and not its towing capacity. Some will want it simply for the 7 slot grill. When it comes down to it, the JT is probably going to be sold out for the first year of its production run just from the Overlanding community alone.
This is kind of my dilemma. I want something smaller in size, but want some of the duty of the full size trucks. Also I want something somewhat luxury as its my daily driver.
Then start making yourself some $500/mo payments so you can afford those options in 1.5 years. There is a strong community demand for a solid axle, 4x4 diesel midsize truck. Being realistic the price for such a vehicle is going to be high.
